It is currently Fri 20 Sep 2024 3:47 am

All times are UTC




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 10:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 25 Mar 2015 10:34 am
Posts: 1
At the end of a word how does scots gaelic pronounce an "mh"
Taking meeting - cruinniamh

Connacht: crinn-a
Ulster: crinn-a
Munster: crinn-av
Scottish: ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 25 Mar 2015 11:59 am 
Offline

Joined: Thu 15 Sep 2011 12:06 pm
Posts: 2435
There's a typo in "cruinniamh", this word doesn't exist.
Actually meeting is cruinniú, pronounced /kriN'u:/ in Connachta and Ulster, and /krin'u:/ in Munster.

In Scots Gaelic you say "coinneamh" (which corresponds to "coinne" in Irish, an appointment) and it's pronounced /kʰɤN'əv/ or /kʰɤN'u/ etc according to the dialect.
Basically, final unstressed -amh in Scottish Gaelic is either /əv/ or /u/ depending on the dialect.

_________________
Is fearr Gaeilg na Gaeltaċta ná Gaeilg ar biṫ eile
Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
:)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 491
I think there's typically a slight w-glide when the ending is "u". Not a strong one, just a slight closing of the mouth.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 27 Mar 2015 12:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 491
The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri 08 Jan 2016 5:17 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 491
Looks like there's two spambot accounts (previous two posts). Who should I report this to?

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 12 Jan 2016 4:47 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun 04 Sep 2011 11:02 pm
Posts: 1580
NiallBeag wrote:
Looks like there's two spambot accounts (previous two posts). Who should I report this to?

I've deleted both posts.

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed 13 Jan 2016 8:55 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 10 Oct 2013 5:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Scotland
NiallBeag wrote:
The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.


So would you say it's more akin to the soft Spanish ‘v’ sound, where it's formed by constricting but not closing the lips (with the teeth basically uninvolved in the actual production of the sound)?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sun 17 Jan 2016 11:33 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 491
idshanks wrote:
NiallBeag wrote:
The other thing to notice is that any "v" sound isn't really like an English V. The bottom lip doesn't curl in as much -- in English you're almost biting your lip, but in Gaelic, I think it stays in front of the teeth.


So would you say it's more akin to the soft Spanish ‘v’ sound, where it's formed by constricting but not closing the lips (with the teeth basically uninvolved in the actual production of the sound)?

In Barra it is. Elsewhere it seems to be like trying to say B with the bottom lip only -- ie without moving your top lip. If that makes sense.

Don't worry too much about it, but think of it this way: F and V in English are slightly more "toothy" and (depending on your accent) don't change N to M (infamy and invisible, vs impossible, imbalance and immaterial) whereas in Gaelic F is more "lippy" and changes certain Ns to M (am fear, am balach, am pàipear).

But i've probably just confused you now.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon 18 Jan 2016 8:29 pm 
Offline

Joined: Thu 10 Oct 2013 5:49 pm
Posts: 28
Location: Scotland
NiallBeag wrote:
But i've probably just confused you now.


Not at all, that's an ideal description. The sounds that are most similar to English are the harder ones to nail because the smaller difference is much harder to pinpoint and articulate, versus sounds which are clearly different from English such as certain vowels. These kinds of descriptions are perfect. I've been using Blas na Gàidhlig for learning my pronunciation broadly before trying to fine-tune it to audio recordings, but this difference for example is something simply dismissed as being the same as in English which is particularly useful if you're shooting for accuracy. Thanks :)


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue 19 Jan 2016 12:39 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed 19 Dec 2012 3:58 pm
Posts: 491
On a weird tangent, you've just reminded me of a conclusion I came to years ago -- that I don't pronounce words like "infamy" or "invisible" with either N or M, but with something that doesn't exist anywhere else in English -- I make the V/F shape with my lips, but apply the nasal quality of the N, then drop the nasalisation to pronounce the F or V and come out with something like "iṽvisible".

Funky.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 

All times are UTC


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group