Forgive me for wasting your time with this, but I've got someone giving me shite on Facebook, so...

There is a poster there who is insisting that the name "Caitlín" (spelled thus, with the acute accent as in Irish) is pronounced, in "Gaelic" [sic] "KHOYT-len" (she was apparently told this by a "Scotts/Irish" [sic] friend).

Now I know, and you know, and you know I know, that this is not even close to how the name is pronounced in Irish. What I don't know about Scottish Gaelic pronunciation, alas, would fill a library, and since I'd rather not make a total fool of myself, I figured I'd better ask the experts: Is there any way that "Caitlín" (or, more correctly, I'd assume, in Scottish Gaelic, "Caitlìn") could be pronounced in any way like "KHOYT-len" in Scottish Gaelic?

Since I'm basing this on her phonetics, and not on hearing her speak aloud, I'm assuming that, by what she's written:

1) The emphasis would be on the first syllable

2) The initial letter might be pronounced anywhere between an English "K" and an Irish or Scottish broad "ch."

3) The "t" would be like an English "t"

4) The first syllable would rhyme with the English "boy"

5) The second syllable would either be a schwa or something like the English "Lynn."

Sorry to waste your time, but please put me out of my misery!

Redwolf

I'm no expert (where's NiallBeag?), and have never actually heard a Gaelic speaker say the name, but I share your skepticism, a Red.

First off, the usual Gaelic form of the name is Caitlin, with no accents. In older Gaelic writings, it's not uncommon to see both accents of the Irish type and the modern Gaelic type (serving different sound functions), and the Irish ones may still be seen in slogans, proverbs, etc. which date from a while back, but today the name would normally be written with no accents.

Secondly, as in Irish, the initial consonant would not be lenited, except in the vocative or when preceded by some other word causing lenition. The informant might not ever have heard the name standing alone, so might not realize that. Gaelic speakers do normally drop the vocative "a" when the name begins with a vowel, but that isn't the case here, so the person probably heard something like A Chaitlin and just didn't know that the "a" was causing lenition.

Taking that into account, the pronunciation would be roughly as would be expected for Irish (with the accent removed), as pronounced by someone from Ulster where the "t" is concerned, except for one final consideration, which is that Gaelic, unlike Irish, has what's called "pre-aspiration" before dental consonants (like that "t") when the consonant is preceded by a vowel. It's like a light, guttural "kh" before the dental consonant, so in this case the result would be something like KAkhTCH-linn (capital letters indicating stress on the first syllable). That looks like a bit of a mess, so I looked at the Akerbeltz pronunciation guides, and this is how it is represented in IPA: kahtjlln.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Thanks...that helps!

The person turned out to be quite a passive-aggressive jerk, so I ended up leaving the conversation after a few pointed words. I suspect, though, that her "friend" wasn't actually giving her a Gaelic pronunciation and instead just pronounced the Anglicized "Caitlyn" with a Scottish accent. Of course she didn't want to hear that, and called me "OCD" when I tried to explain Irish phonetics and what little I knew of Gaelic phonetics (based mainly on what I know of Ulster Irish), so I figured "life is too short!"

Redwolf

Seems almost unnecessary to speculate now, in light of what happened, but I did think of a possible reason for the person's confusion. I mentioned in another post recently how common it is for sounds (and letters) to get transposed in languages when non-native speakers (and sometimes even lazy native speakers) try to say them, using the example of how "I asked" has become "I axed [aksed]" among some English speakers.

Gaelic pre-aspiration can be very hard for non-natives to say or hear clearly, because our ears/minds (especially among adults) often just don't want to accept sounds which seem out of place or odd. It's possible that the informant actually pronounced the name correctly, but that the hearer "heard" the pre-aspirated sound move to the front of the word, yielding (in her mind) KHATCH-linn (or, in IPA: xatjlln).

_________________
I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.

Possibly. Still not sure where she got the "oy" from though. And I'm pretty certain, from what she wrote, that she was hearing a standard English "t," not the "tch" sound of a slender "t."

Redwolf

"a" always has an "ah" sound (except on and near Islay, where it's an "eh" sound), never any "oh" or "aw". Y-glides are practically always marked with slender DH or GH.

Caomhin's spot on with the pronunciation.

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A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.

"KHOYT-len"

Khoyt - that sounds like what it could be if there was a fada on the A -
as in the Irish "Cáit".

That never happens in Scottish Gaelic - it stays as an "ah" sound, just longer.

_________________
A language belongs to its native speakers, and when you speak it, you are a guest in their homes.
If you are not a good guest, you have no right to complain about receiving poor hospitality.