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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 2:15 pm 
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Hello,

I've had this image saved on my computer for what seems like forever now and I can't remember where I found it but it seems to me to be Scottish Gaelic. I was hoping someone hear can confirm or debunk and if confirmed tell me what it says.

Many thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4ukksj545pwa9j/img1345.jpg?dl=0


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 3:00 pm 
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tumcdan wrote:
Hello,

I've had this image saved on my computer for what seems like forever now and I can't remember where I found it but it seems to me to be Scottish Gaelic. I was hoping someone hear can confirm or debunk and if confirmed tell me what it says.

Many thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/q4ukksj545pwa9j/img1345.jpg?dl=0


It could either Irish or Scottish Gaelic.

I think the text reads as:

étach domnaill 'Donall's garment'

I am taking the first symbol to be the nod for agus agus, or -et- in Latin;* combined with -c- superscript, indicating et-(e)ac(h).*

the wavy superscript above the -0- in domnaill, definitely stands for -m-.

*it could also be ingenach, as the .i. could stand for ingen 'daughter', but this symbol is usually accompanied by an suspension stroke.

I would like to see it in context to be sure.

Cian

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Please wait for corrections/ more input from other forum members before acting on advice


I'm familiar with Munster Irish/ Gaolainn na Mumhan (GM) and the Official Standard/an Caighdeán Oifigiúil (CO)


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PostPosted: Thu 20 Aug 2015 10:37 pm 
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It's Old or Middle Irish. It can't be Scottish Gaelic because at that time, Scottish Gaelic didn't exist yet, it was identical to Irish, especially the written language.

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PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2015 1:05 am 
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Once again thanks for all the help with this. I was doing some searching with Irish/Gaelic scripts and contractions and found this "How to" site and maybe this comes from the 1467 manuscript or something like it?

http://www.1467manuscript.co.uk/06%20how%20to.html

According to this site it could be mhic Domhnaill? What do you guys think?


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PostPosted: Fri 21 Aug 2015 1:35 am 
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You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)

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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 1:16 pm 
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Lughaidh wrote:
You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)


If this is "mhic Domhnaill" I have a further question if I may ask. What is the meaning of 'mhic' itself? Is it similar to the 'mac' as in son or descendant of, perhaps a genitive case?


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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 9:08 pm 
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Aye, "mhic" is the genitive case of "mac".
...mhic Domnaill = of Mac Donald, or "of the son of Domnall.

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Agus is í Gaeilg Ġaoṫ Doḃair is binne
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PostPosted: Sat 22 Aug 2015 9:22 pm 
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tumcdan wrote:
Lughaidh wrote:
You're right, I didn't know this "nod". :)


If this is "mhic Domhnaill" I have a further question if I may ask. What is the meaning of 'mhic' itself? Is it similar to the 'mac' as in son or descendant of, perhaps a genitive case?


The word for "son" is mac, and when it is in the genitive (possessive) case it becomes mic ("of [the] son"). The addition of the "h" after the "m", to create mhac or mhic, which is known as lenition (or séimhiú in Irish) only happens as a result of certain things occurring before the word. As examples:

a mhac = his son
mo mhac = my son (when talking about him)
A mhic! (sometimes A mhac!) = "O [my] son!" (when speaking to him)

To get to the form Mhic Dhomhnaill, you would need some sort of possessive phrase. For example:
teach Mhic Dhomhnaill = "house of the son of Donal" = "house of McDonnell" = "McDonnell's house"

Another example is one the ways for a wife's name to be given. Women traditionally kept their maiden surnames after marriage, but a woman marrying a man named Mac Domhnaill could also be called Bean Mhic Dhomhnaill ("wife of the son of Donal" = "wife of McDonnell" = "Mrs. McDonnell").

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PostPosted: Sun 23 Aug 2015 6:41 am 
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'ic (as a reduced form of mhic) is often used to distinguish the clan name from the literal patronymic, or sometimes to split off a grandfather or great grandfather. I'm not too sure about the exact rules, though.

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PostPosted: Mon 24 Aug 2015 12:11 am 
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NiallBeag wrote:
'ic (as a reduced form of mhic) is often used to distinguish the clan name from the literal patronymic, or sometimes to split off a grandfather or great grandfather. I'm not too sure about the exact rules, though.


I've seen it mostly in the full form of clan names, as in Clann 'ic Dhòmhnaill.

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I'm not a native (or entirely fluent) speaker, so be sure to wait for confirmations/corrections, especially for tattoos.


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